At SXSW, Michelle Obama tackles despair and loneliness in a podcast with her brother, Craig Robinson

Trying to find authentic, consistent joy in the midst of a reality that is relentlessly delivering devastating blows feels akin to finding a needle in an impossibly large haystack. But according to Michelle Obama, it is possible—and the power lies in acknowledging the depth of despair and apathy while still finding reasons for hope.  

At SXSW this week, the former first lady and her older brother, Craig Robinson, who is executive director of the National Association of Basketball Coaches, took the stage for a live session of their new podcast, IMO. The pair were joined by Laurie Santos, a cognitive scientist, the Yale professor behind the school’s most popular class to date, “The Science of Well-Being,” and host of The Happiness Lab podcast, to discuss how to cultivate a hopeful mindset given the state of the world.

On the current climate and drawing from childhood lessons

Obama acknowledged the tense political climate, job loss, and growing divisions among Americans.

“I worry about folks being out of work, and I worry about how we think about diversity and inclusion. I think about how we treat one another and the voices that we hear, and what that does, what models that’s setting for the next generation,” she said. 

“Who do we want to be as a country?” she continued. “All of that keeps me up at night, and I know that a lot of people are struggling with some of those things. But I find in those moments that it is better not to try to figure that stuff out alone.”

The siblings shared anecdotes from childhood to underscore several themes—the value of in-person interactions, the limiting of social media consumption, and how childhood experiences led them to develop the skills necessary to cope with adversity.

They were raised by parents who, Obama pointed out, had many reasons to wallow in despair. Their father was a blue-collar worker raised in desegregation who was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis as a young man. The two discussed what it was like growing up with a parent with a disability dominating his life, yet rarely missed a day of work and still managed to raise two successful children. 

“For me and Craig and our families, you know, we always try to step outside of our loneliness and talk as a family and as a community to share those concerns,” Obama shared.  “And I hope that our listeners are pushed to do some of the same things too.”

On tackling apathy and negative emotions 

An audience member posed the question to panelists: “How do we plan for a future that looks different from the one that we were promised, without feeling apathetic?”

To Santos, a crucial piece of it is acknowledging that these times are not normal, and so feelings of apathy and disconnect are normal.

“All too often we can get into this, like, toxic positivity bag, where it’s like, I’m feeling kind of embarrassed that I’m so upset and frustrated and overwhelmed and sad about what’s going on in the world,” she said. “We’re supposed to feel that! Negative emotions are normal in an abnormal world.”

All three speakers agreed that social media and technology play an active role in exacerbating unhappiness. To combat this, Santos urged the audience to consider the impact scrolling on a timeline can have on the psyche and be deliberate in how we spend our time.

“Social media companies wouldn’t have the algorithms if all our eyeballs weren’t on phones anymore. And we actually have more agency than we often remember in that fight,” she said. 

On finding hope

A recurring theme in the conversation was rooted in finding ways to help others, even in small ways. Impacting the people around us and our loved ones, was a surefire way to find joy.

“Our mom used to say, ‘You’re responsible for your own passion.’ And that was some of the most empowering advice she ever gave us,” said Robinson. “How can we help those out there who don’t have a Marian Robinson or a social group? How can we help them work through making themselves happy?”

For Santos, hope did not mean toxic positivity or simply remaining optimistic.

“Hope says things are not fine, but I can actually see at least a few paths for things to get better,” she said. 

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