the office with the cardboard coworker, part 2

Remember the letter last month from the person asking how their office could hire people who wouldn’t be uncomfortable with their culture and quickly leave? Among other things, they mentioned a cardboard cut-out coworker (Robert), a celebrity death betting pool where winners would get an extra day off, and a lunchtime discussion of whether aliens can have orgasms. The letter-writer provided more info after response, and agreed I could share it and respond here:

Thank you for responding to my letter. After reading the response and comments, I realized that the alien orgasm example drew more attention than I expected, even though I had meant it as one particularly bad example rather than the main issue itself. I wanted to add a little more context and clarify a few points.

The alien orgasm example was an outlier, and one of the worst examples I could remember, which is why I used it. The “alien anatomy” discussion was also less about sex itself than about whether extraterrestrials would experience pleasure or physical sensation the same way humans do, especially if they did not even have bodies like ours. I understand that it was still inappropriate, but some commenters seemed to come away with the impression that sex is a regular topic in the office, and that is not really the case.

A more typical version of these conversations would be discussions about books, movies, and TV shows. We have had conversations like which horror movie character was so stupid that you actively rooted for their death. We have also had conversations like which politician you would “make disappear” if you could get away with it, but when someone pointed out that it was inappropriate, the conversation moved on without any fuss. In general, the conversations tend to get strange in a morbid way rather than in a sexualized one. That is still a problem, of course, just not quite the same one some people focused on.

The office betting pool is less about hostility toward specific celebrities and more about the kind of morbid joking people make about public figures who seem as though they have been old forever. The attitude is usually more “I cannot believe this person is still alive” than “I want this person to die.” Similarly, the “scandals” people talk about are usually things like cheating, wearing something provocative, or being rude to a fan, rather than actual criminal behavior. I do not participate in the betting pool because I would feel too guilty winning a paid day off by correctly guessing someone’s death, but people do sometimes mention their picks during lunch.

I mentioned lunch because that is usually when the conversations can get strange. Most of our work requires concentration, so there is not much chatting during the day, and many people wear headphones most of the time. Team lunches also really are optional. We are a small team inside a large company, so the whole team does not eat together every day, but there are usually six to eight people having lunch together, even if it is not always the same group.

I described cardboard Robert as the strangest part because all the other things are occasional, and lunch itself is optional. Some people never have lunch with the team, and that is completely fine. But Robert is there every day, sitting at a desk and being greeted. It took me about two months to find out there was a death pool, and some time before I heard one of the more inappropriate lunch conversations, but I was introduced to Robert on my first day. My manager even told the team to act normal during my first week so they would not scare me off. The monthly “hunt” for Robert is optional and avoidable, but comments about him happen every day, and new employees are introduced to him as though he is simply part of the team.

In your response, it seemed as though my letter came across as asking, “How can we change our culture so people don’t feel this is a sexualized environment?” I can understand why, given the example I used, but the help I was really hoping for was a little different. What I was trying to ask was something more like, “How can I help my manager hire someone who is likely to fit in here, while also giving candidates a fair sense of what the office is like, so neither side feels misled?” Someone suggested inviting candidates to join a typical team lunch, and that was much closer to the kind of suggestion I had been hoping for.

I also appreciated your point that inappropriate conversations are inappropriate no matter when they happen. I do know that, and I think at least part of the team knows it too, given the ongoing joke that there is probably a reason our room is physically as far from HR as possible. But I am not a manager, and honestly I do not want to be one. My manager decided that because I was the most recent hire, I was the right person to help her think through this, even though I do not really have the authority or the tools to change how the team operates. I will pass these points along to her, but I do not think much would change without rebuilding the team almost from scratch.

To be clear, I do understand why these things are a problem. I am not trying to defend them or suggest that people are wrong for not wanting to work here. I just wanted to provide more context so I could get advice that was more specific to the situation I was actually asking about. Some of the comments were genuinely helpful, and I was hoping that with a better explanation I might get more of that. But if the answer is still simply that the culture needs to change, I do understand that, and I appreciate your response anyway.

Sincerely,
The Person with the Cardboard Coworker

I do get what you’re saying, and this adds helpful nuance, particularly that this is mostly happening at lunch, which makes a significant difference! But yes — my answer is still that the culture might be the problem.

Your letter didn’t come across as if you were asking, “How can we change our culture so people don’t feel this is a sexualized environment?” It was clear that you were asking how to hire people more likely to fit in. It’s just that the culture is the thing your boss should be looking at.

If your boss truly wants an inclusive culture, she’s got to take another look at things like giving people extra days off for winning celebrity death pools, sexualized conversations that extended over multiple days (and I take your point that the alien orgasm conversation was an outlier, but it’s a thing that happened and stuck in your mind enough to mention it), and what sounds in general like a sort of doubling down on silliness to the point that it permeates the office in a way that a lot of people would just find exhausting.

And to be clear, companies do have their own unique cultures, and it often does make sense to screen for people who will be happy there. But when the last two hires both left after a few weeks and cited the culture as their reason, you do need to take another look at whether this is the culture you should be protecting and preserving, and whether it’s serving your organization’s goals (like hiring and retaining the people you want to hire and retain) or whether it would benefit some revisions. That does not mean “rebuilding the team from scratch” — it could be that some fairly minor tweaks could have a big impact (as a start, get rid of the extra days off for people who correctly predict when other humans will die — the fact that the death pool has official rewards for participating is a problem).

Your boss also might talk to the people who don’t generally join the group at lunch to find out how they’re experiencing the culture, what their take on the office’s inclusivity is, and how comfortable they think the office might be to new hires who have a different sense of humor or different interests — not because it’s a problem not to join everyone at lunch (it’s definitely not) but to make sure she’s hearing the perspectives of people outside that core group.

Maybe there’s not even a significant problem to fix. Maybe those two recent hires who noped right out were outliers! But this is the first stuff your boss should be looking at with a critical eye while she’s assessing what happened. If she comes away truly satisfied that changes aren’t needed there, then she could think about things like sending finalist candidates out to lunch with a group of would-be coworkers, letting finalists talk one-on-one with people who would be their peers, and talking explicitly in the interview process about things that make the office’s culture unique, so that people get a clearer picture of what life is like there and can self-select-out if it’s not for them (although none of that is foolproof, since not everyone is great about assessing this kind of thing while they’re interviewing, particularly when they need a job).

But also, keep in mind: this is your boss’s to figure out, not yours! You don’t need to solve this just because you were the last person hired who didn’t immediately leave.

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